About Perry Manley
Pretty much anyone that visits this blog knows the news of what Perry Manley did yesterday. He occasionally posted on this blog and a few of its participants knew him.
What Perry Manley did yesterday was unequivocally wrong. It was illegal, disruptive, extreme, and caused violent drama that need not have occurred. The purpose of this blog has since its inception been to raise awareness about the plight of men and fathers who the media and politicians seem to either ignore or to vilify. The objective has always been to affect the vote in our democratic process through peacefully getting the message out.
If any of those that knew Perry had known that he had planned such an action, they would surely have done everything they could have to stop him.
These are the facts. While you are considering them, however, we hope that, with time, you might reflect on at least part of Perry Manley’s cause. Millions of fathers in this country have lost access, or had access severely limited, to their children. This too often happens due to no fault of the father, while both the father and the children suffer.
The participants of this blog believe that fathers must support their children, while also having the opportunity to parent them.
Perry Manley’s actions may not have helped this cause. We hope that they did not hurt it.
What Perry Manley did yesterday was unequivocally wrong. It was illegal, disruptive, extreme, and caused violent drama that need not have occurred. The purpose of this blog has since its inception been to raise awareness about the plight of men and fathers who the media and politicians seem to either ignore or to vilify. The objective has always been to affect the vote in our democratic process through peacefully getting the message out.
If any of those that knew Perry had known that he had planned such an action, they would surely have done everything they could have to stop him.
These are the facts. While you are considering them, however, we hope that, with time, you might reflect on at least part of Perry Manley’s cause. Millions of fathers in this country have lost access, or had access severely limited, to their children. This too often happens due to no fault of the father, while both the father and the children suffer.
The participants of this blog believe that fathers must support their children, while also having the opportunity to parent them.
Perry Manley’s actions may not have helped this cause. We hope that they did not hurt it.
posted by One man at 1:09 PM
34 Comments:
Sadness. The most tragic occurence in life is suicide. When one person is so alone that they know no other recourse than to take their own life. I did not know Perry, I only knew this; that he wanted to be with his
child(ren) and love them and they be with him and love him. He did not want special rights he only wanted equal rights. His cause was the cause of all men everywhere. We men as dads love and need our children as much as their mothers do, no more no less. I didn't know him but I will miss him.
Perry did leave us one gracious gift. That is, attention to his and our plight. Attention that has been missing, due to omission, or commission, does not matter.
What does matter is that we seize this golden opportunity he created for us in his last moments.
Perry opened the dark door protecting the dark side of fatherhood, the lack of father's ability to grow and nourish their children, as they are launched in life. If we all work now, to keep that door open, and to shine light on the dark side, then children, fathers, and mothers will all benefit, society will grow stronger, rather than weaker, and we may give those amongst us hope, rather than despair.
Geezer
Mr Manley, Cracked the door open. The media is going to pass this off imediately unless we keep it in the news. I like the idea of the candle light vigil. But this story and others need to be brought to the attention of everyone so that things can change. We need to start naming Judges that are against equal rights so that these judges find themselves out of a job and we can get judges that believe in fairness in the court system. Mr Manley has passed to torch to all of us. And now it's our job to not let him down! Kids need this. And they need it now.
Don't you people get it?
You helped CAUSE this. You fostered his lunacy and you gave his anger fuel? His arguements are crazy and that means that your arguements are crazy.
He shouldn't have been such a cheap pathetic bastard, quitting jobs to avoid paying child support. He should have been a mature man and paid his support, like millions of people do it.
It's time for you nutcases to take a look in the mirror and write a check and stop whining.
I dare you cowards to keep this post up, too.
I'm thinking "Anonymous" is Perry Manley's ex. The one's fostering the lunacy and anger is our government and women who get knocked up and expect to get a free ride.
Tell me what I'm missing here.
Manley had 1/2 custody before he went off the deep end, correct?
And he complained about paying $450 a month for three kids, right?
I can share in Manleys feeling and fustration with the current Justice system, as a Father that has every concievable, action taken against me legally, I know first hand what Manley was going through, I have spent my entire saving fighting for my rights as a father, unless you have been exposed to the system and the corrupt commissioners and Judges you have no idea what Manley has faced, its real and not a joke or over exaggeration I been dealing with the system for over 6 years.
Sure Manleys decision was not the best one to make for the sake of his children but, I can understand as I can in the Brame case and the Domestic violence issue's he was going to face in his custody battle if you know what I mean, Brame knew the system and knew what the consequences were going to be so what were his choices, they were dratic extreme decisions, But I can understand why they made them.
I think the anonymous critic sounds like she is displacing guilt. That would be typical. Perry had nothing to gain. The pressure was off. He was, after 15 years, finally free. With no way of getting back any of the money he overpaid. I knew him. Yes he was stubborn, but not crazy. Impassioned. I do not agree with his tactic's. I do agree with his cause.
Exactly One Man!
No, he was crazy.
Going to a courthouse with a grenade is crazy. Don't you get that? Especially since he was done paying. His tactics are directly related to his 'cause', which was crazy in and of itself.
This was over $450 a month? For three kids? That's not a lot of money to raise three kids.
And to the dude whining about $900, get the hell over it. $900 isn't that much, either. Why are you so bitter? You don't have enough money or something? They are YOUR KIDS, el cheapo. They aren't taking 45% of your income, right? For 2 kids it's probably 30%. Why is anyone supposed to feel for you?
You guys are just pissed you can't control your ex wives. Get some help.
I just realized what you saying...
You said that you understood the David Brame case, where he shot his wife to death in front of their children after his domestic abuse was revealed. You said you understood that. You said 'so what were his choices'?
His choice was to seek professional help for his violence, before it got out of control. He didn't do that, so he murdered someone in cold blood in front of his children.
It's too late for Manley. It's too late for David Brame and his victim Crystal Brame. It's not too late for YOU, however. Your feelings that you 'understand' suicide and murder shows that you have serious mental and spiritual problems, and you should get help right away. I mean it - you're a sick person and you need to get this in check before you hurt someone or hurt yourself. Please, think about it for a second and then take some positive action in your life.
Your bitter angry rant proves our cause. Your insubstacial speculation means nothing. You try to convince US. The dedicated. I have nothing to gain and much to lose. Why am I here? You think it because I lost? No. It is because of women like you who abuse the system. There are REAL victims out there and you discredit them. That is wrong and must be stopped. I HELP to make my ex happy. We work together like adults. And she allows me to be a part of our childrens lives. She is NOT the shriveled shrew you have become. She is a good mother who loves her kids. I wonder what this guy who is marrying Perry's daughter thinks. It won't happen to him too? LOL. Her grandmother chose divorce, her mother chose divorce. She doesn't know any better. This poor fool WILL know our pain and sooner than you would think. She's a third generation divorce baby. She doesn't know HOW to be married. None of the women in her family do. This must stop. You make women look bad and you hurt the real victims. STOP! Oh, and about Brame, she was like you. Read more than just the headlines and you would know that. Stop execising your hate muscle and READ IT ALL. Murder is never the answer but if you knew what she was doing to him...well it's alot easier to understand. Oh and I know you do.
First, I'm a man, fool. You hate women, so you OF COURSE you think I'm a woman. But, nope. I'm a dude. Divorced, too. And I'm not walking down the street with a sandwich board or ranting and whining about supporting my kids.
Are you really saying that Crystal Brame deserved to be shot to death?
And unless I missed something, Manley didn't know how to be married, either. It's better he's gone, but it would have been even better if someone had helped him get over his anger and told him to get on with his life. Too late for him, but not you - stop defending suicide and murder and get on with your lives.
Don't you see how crazy your 'cause' is? How rooted in hate it is?
Was your mom divorced too? You hate men. I love women. A great many. Most women are strong and capable. I have a problem with the noisy few and the fools like you who believe the propaganda that the gender feminists spread. Read the reports that your own government produces (CDC,Dept. of Justice, etc...). They prove my point. These women are liars and you are a dupe, if you are in fact a man, which I doubt. You don't make enough sense. If you actually did some real reasearch and didn't simply let your emotions run your mouth for you you would understand. But you chose to not believe. And you are not alone in that choice. The fact of the matter is, we ARE in the minority. Perhaps I should work for the other side until ALL men feel the sting of prejudice. No I love women and I fear for the ones I care about because of what these phycho bitches are doing to the reputation of women in general. Do you think I want one of my kids to become the next Lacy Perterson? I am here to help and your obvious bitterness helps me do that. Shall we continue this discouse?
How do you know they'll see a dime of it? Seriously? Okay, here's your answer.
You see your kids, right? Do they eat? Do they have a place to live? Does food and housing cost money? Does your wife buy them clothes? Does she take them places? Pay for things at school?
If not - go back to court, and calmly and clearly state your case. With facts.
Oh, wait - you're just talking. You know that the money is going to them. You pay $225 a week? For two kids? Big deal. It's not 'rape', you cheap bastard. Stop whining.
Personally, I have custody of my kids.
PS - Stop bragging about going shopping or on vacations, you weekend father. You're SUPPOSED to.
Just the fact that this person remains anonymous speaks volumes of their lack of backbone, no real cause/belief in themself. To then further put words into one man's mouth and twist around what he actually said is rediculous, as we are all able to go back and read exactly what he said. It reaks of guilt and shame, goes hand and hand w/ Spineless Rodent. I dont think SR has ever been married or in a serious relationship for the following reasons: it takes two to have a relationship, there is no way to know everything that is in the other person's head and therefore we all take a leap of faith, hopefully mixed w/ some experiences, both good and bad, with our soon to be spouse, when entering into a marriage/relationship. Fifty percent (+/-) of all marriages end in divorce, it is a statistic, it does not make either sex bad or good, it is an infinite number of reasons for each individual demise. They are all unique, just like assholes. That being said, it cannot be "You Guys" as the problem. What Perry did was an individual act, it was not his lifestyle and to suggest such is not only shallow at best but suggests that you have issues and are unable to resolve them in your own mind. This group, trying to change the way divorcees' are perceived and trying to change the laws pertaining to child support/paternity fraud, is where Perry found acceptance, understanding, family and love. If anyone says otherwise they are sadly mistaken. Mr/Ms Anonymous reads the seattle sillytimes headlines as "man angry over child support". WRONG! It should have read, "Man angry after years of trying to talk sense to unrelenting, arrogant assholes who coud give a shit cause it doesn't pertain to them". This is still a very intimate group of minority voices and it is very difficult to bring about change for this cause, especially w/ignorant thoughts such as those from Mr/Ms Anonymous. So, yes your comments are welcome but please think just a little bit longer before posting so that it might be construed as deeper thoughts rather than someone going on a rant.
More about your hero, David Brame...
“She was on a time schedule. David kept very close tabs of her time,” says Phillips.
”He’d mark the time, check the receipts,” says Conmy. “He used to give her $100 every two weeks for the family of three and then four, and that’s all the money she had,” adds Clark. “From the first time I met her, I would see her count out pennies and nickels and dimes.”
“He would make it a point that he was the one who brought home the paycheck,” says sister Julie. And he’d make a point, Lane says, to “say it says David Brame on the check. It doesn’t say Crystal.”
There were also allegations of abuse, both physical and emotional. “There was always yelling and screaming and telling her how horrible she is, how no man would ever want her because she’s fat and she’s ugly and she has kids,” recalls Phillips.
“He would say, ‘You know, I can choke you so quickly or I can snap your neck,’” says Crystal’s mother, Patty.
Comitting suicide by cop wasn't Manley's lifestyle? Obviously - since you can only do that once.
Paranoid, insane whiny protesting over was his lifestyle and it's one that you helped promote. Rather than talk some sense into him, you fueled his anger which caused his death. Good job. Now, seriously - seek help. A shrink or a pastor or a sane friend. Anyone.
We are fine 'anonymous critic.' Seek your own councel. Maybe buy some balls. If you can figure out how to use them maybe you'll begin to understand. Did you know Perry? Obviously not. All you know is what you have been told by the ones who ruined his life. And you are fool enough to believe them. I knew him personally We did not call Brame a hero (I begin to wonder how well you can read or speak english). Read it again. I said nothing like that. We are not going anywhere and we are not going to stop. Certainly not because of your deluded ramblings. We are here to stay. Get used to it. There are more and more of us who have seen though the BS that you are so vulerable to. I never thought I'd feel this way, but I hope you learn the hard way. We are here to prevent people just like you from going through what so many of us have and you can't even come up with a substancial arguement. Just alot of fluff and dust. Everything you've said is emotionally driven. You state no facts, bring no studies or reports. What makes you think that your empty arguements do anything except inspire others like me? You show the world your ignorance with pride. And I like that. Keep up the good work. You help us more than you can imagine.
Here's a clue...listen up.
I don't have the same problems you do, because I didn't make the same mistakes you did. I don't know what you did to make it so you only see your kids 4 days a month, but why not take an anger management class and increase the amount of time you spend.
Your ex gets 35% of your income and your ex takes care of them 92.5% of the month. How is that fair to her?
Yes, I said 'to her'. Stop thinking of just yourself. Think of your kids first. Then, swallow your pride and admit the mistakes you made that left you so bitter. And you did make mistakes - let's take a look at your divorce papers and figure out what you did. I am sure that your anger cost you.
It's not too late. Seriously, it's not. Get help. Break away from the circle jerk of pity you people are in, and try to let the love of family and your Creator back into your heart. Stop the madness.
We are here for the people who have some sense. I'm done with this idiot. He proves why it is SO important to share our stories as much as we can. People simply don't believe us. I used to be one of those until it happened to me. We are here for those that want to listen. 'Anonymous' your comments and opinions are welcome here. They prove this overwhelming bias against men. Even men are becoming man haters. This nitwit reminds me of our friend, the male impersonator, Stan the Fecal Scholar. Have you deleted all of our comments yet? But it is clear this person believes whole-heartedly in what they are saying, but they don't share Perry's courage.
Shame. Shame on each of you. I say that not because your poiunts and passions aren't valid. I say that not because your "discussion" has now been reduced to name calling. I say SHAME, because all of the comments after the second have been personally motivated. You are all guilty of defiling the memory of a human. This entry was to be a farewell to a man who died, not an arena of ineptitude spelled out in childish babble.
So for the record, I never met Mr. Manely. I am not a fan of his choice to die by cop. BUT! I think that mens rights are being trampled. I do belive that dedicated people that find this an injustice should strive to change it. And finally, I will miss out on a chance to find out what Mr. Manely would have thought. God Rest.
Please take your pitifull mudslinging to another post, or better yet, nowhere, so that this sad debacle of a debate can also be laid to rest.
The Open Way
I have wondered about the millions of dollars worth of non-leathal measures you and I have paid for. Where were they? Why didn't they just foam him and throw him in the loony bin if he was crazy? I'm sure they could have arranged for him to never be discharged. Curious.
I don'tthink Perry was crazy at all. He knew what he was doing. What he did was open the eyes to everyone, Well at least those who would open there minds and hear it. Like Me, it is so unfair that a crazy Bitch like the one that stage her kidnapping and with her Eyes buldging out her head gets a slap on the wrist and gets paid alot of attention and cold hard cash ranging in the high 6 figures.
It is disgraceful when a good man like Perry Manley gets barley any coverage in the media, only made out to look like another extreme fruitcake. Well Kiro 7 did do a decent story on Perry ad KCPQ 13 kinda did a decent story.
Perry Manley wasn't assassinated by anyone. That's absurd. I knew Perry and had seen him at the Court. He knew what he was doing and he knew that the feds are deadly serious. He brought what was almost unmistakably an explosive device with no explosives. He knew what they would think, and he knew what they would do. Perry did this to himself. He made himself a threat and he was killed.
And Perry was just another extreme fruitcake. Any crazy nutball can spend $29.99 on a fake grenade at the Army PX/Surplus and get themself killed. Took no courage, took no guts. Just a .223 in the head and a 12 gauge buck in the chest.
And your non-lethal measures? *PERRY* took those off the table by having a grenade in his hand. The cops can't risk him tossing grenade in their midst and him running off to another part of the courthouse.
Believe in the cause, but also believe that Perry did this to himself. 100%. Personally, I feel bad for those cops that had to kill him. Don't you think they feel terrible for killing somebody? But Perry was selfish and didn't care about anyone but himself and making his statement.
I just want to hear why you're so pissed about $900 a month for two kids that your ex does more than 90% of the work to raise?
How much extra rent does she pay for the extra bedrooms?
How much does food cost?
How about school expenses? Clothes?
How about the work she does taking care of them, while you're off complaining about her?
Why did she divorce you, anyway? Because you were a controlling lunatic, right?
Anonymus says he has full custody of his kids, 100%, right? So how much does your x pay you of her salary?.....Bingo! Has the light come on yet? It's about equality, if women are truly equal, why shouldn't she be paying you as much as xcanuk is paying his x? You think xcanuk should pay more than 30 some percent yet he only gets to see his kid(s) 7 some percent? Who's the moron now? We are not women haters, we are just looking for EQUAL rights, nothing else. So how did you get full custody of your kid(s)? I thought you only got that if your x was a crack-whore.
The child support formulas that states have are completely without reference to gender. They are simple math, based on percantage of custody and income. Please cite a child support formula that mentions gender at all. You can't. It's totally equitable.
I notice that Canuck can't answer my questions. That is very telling, don't you think?
Answer the question 'anonymous.' How much does your ex pay YOU? You have full custody? How is that 'thinking of her?' If I hurt as much as I do when I can't be with my kids, how much are you hurting HER? You are a hypocrite. You should share custody unless there is a PROVABLE reason not to. At that point the 'support calculations' say no one pays anyone. Having restrictions based on insubstantial claims is what we are fighting against, for BOTH men and women. Perhaps what you really fear is that we may succeed and you will have to SHARE custody. That makes you just as bad as any of the lying, shrews you are so quick to defend. Why don't YOU think of HER and SHARE custody?
I share. It is what is best for the children. Have you alienated their mother? You are the problem we are fighting about, whether man OR woman. Shared parenting works. Take your own advice, "think of HER." Think long and hard on 'the other parent' and how they love thier children too.
I never said I have sole custody. I have shared custody, although for school reasons my kid is with me most of the week. There are no money issues. Now, apologize for your rant and explain to me what Manley's problem was with paying $450 a month.
I'm through arguing with you. Sounds like you have the money to buy your rights. If you have your kids more than 65% of the time, then you are entitled to child support. So, answer the question. And a few more while you are at it. Just how many overnights does your ex get? And how much did your lawyer(s) cost? Do you work for the government? I too have an arrangement like you describe. I am not Perry nor would I have ended up like him. I want my ex to be happy. My kids will be better off that way. I feel lucky that she thinks the same. It is a big bitter pill to swallow, but I did it for my kids. And I am so glad I didn't marry into the kind of thing he did. It might have driven me crazy too. No my ex is a good mom and she knows the value of a good dad. On the way to getting here, I found huge bias in the system and was routinely lied about. I have said that I used to be like you and not believe. The reason I have the relationship I have with my ex and my kids is because of these great men and the help they gave me. There is a terrible bias against men. I have seen it with my own eyes or I would not have believed it. I used to consider myself a feminist. The first time a woman accuses you of some misdeed you will know of what we speak. You keep fixating on the child support issue. That’s not it. It's the double standards. If you can't see them after reading this blog I can't help you. I'm ashamed I've let you bait me this far and I don't want to fight with you. That is as close to an apology as you are going to get. I am curious, what gives you the right to criticize him? Do you really know him? If he was really crazy as you say, why make fun of him? Crazy people need help. Male AND female crazy people. You criticize me for missing the sound of his laughter? Did you ever have a friendly conversation with him? I counted him a friend and I feel I have the right to criticize him. I knew him and where he was coming from. Not just headlines. Did you? Yes I think what he did was wrong. I said that several times. If he was crazy, I couldn’t see it. Perhaps he was driven crazy. If he was though, is it right to blame and hate and ridicule crazy people? Or should we seek to help them and try to prevent this kind of thing from happening again?
I said it over and over; you people are crazy and you need help. There's no unfairness. It's a paranoid illusion. You can cite stories of unfairness on either side but to see a bunch of whiny white men...it's just sad.
So, what happened to your pal Perry that was so unfair? He had 1/2 custody at one point, right? He was pissed about paying $450 a month for two kids, right? He quit jobs to avoid paying, right?
I think what happened comes down to one thing and one thing only - it sounds like he was dumped and couldn't stand that he couldn't control his wife anymore. If I'm wrong, please explain in some detail exactly what he problem was in his case. Don't tell me how unfair things are for men, tell me what was unfair in HIS case.
You know...you've just shown all of us that you are just an asshole. Your opinion means SO much less than Perry's. He was kind and considerate. You're just an ass. Keep on calling us names. You have a real talent there. It is inspiring. You do more to help motivate us than you could possibly imagine. Oh..and you contradict yourself too much. In court that is called perjury. Did you know him? If you did, you'd know the answer to your own questions. You are just here taking pot shots at sad people. What does that make you? What is your problem with Perry or his friends? You have gotten awfully worked up over this. Perhaps anger management is in order. Hypocrite. Perry quit his job AFTER he realized he was taking home 18 cents on the dollar. He could not provide even for himself on that let alone create an environment enriching enough for children. You think that fair. It is assholes like you that drove him crazy. YOU did this to him. YOU caused this. Fuckin' hypocrite. Keep runnin' that idiot mouth of yours.
You still haven't answered the question. I think we are all in agreement that this is a woman impersonating a man. There are enough indicators.
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